Wednesday, April 18, 2012

New SV hunter. Need help!

I've decided to swap my pve spec to survival. I did this as many say it is more fun and is neck-and-neck with MM in terms of dps anyway.

I'm building up a pve set (trying to get most of my pieces from the hot heroics, still needs enchants, etc). But I haven't a clue what our stat priorities are.

I don't know what to reforge, how much haste to have, etc. I looked at the stickies, but they seem a bit dated.

I just have a few questions.

-What are our stat priorities for reforging?
-With 2p tier 13, what should my rotation be?
-Black arrow or explosive trap?

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light for me.
I don't play SV but I can answer the last question. You will want to use BA for single target and Explosive Trap for AOE.
I don't even PvE so I'm almost no help.
From what I know, the stickies are still fairly current, even though they are for 4.1

1 Stat priorities? I go with Hit to 8%>crit>haste>mastery. Haste is important for reducing the cast time of cobra shot to 1.67 seconds

2 Rotation? I don't have 2pc t13 so i'm not sure how much it will change, but the rotation I use is BA>Serpent>ES>Cobra x3 (the reason for 1.67 seconds cobra shots)>ES rinse and repeat, weaving in BA when it comes off cd.

During LnL procs, my rotation changes to ES>Cobra>ES>Arcane>ES and then back to my normal rotation.

Never use steady shot as a survival hunter and use arcane shot as your focus dump.

3 BA or explosive trap? BA definitely. In combat, traps are clunky to use and I almost never use them unless it's for cc.

Of course, this comes with the rider that more experienced hunters are free to disagree with me.
The rotation is:

Explosive shot then serpent sting then black arrow then cobra shotx3 then explosive again

from there it's whatever is off cooldown (cobrax3..cooldown etc)

For lock and load procs, there's a couple of different ways to do it:

First way (the making absolutely sure you aren't clipping shots way):

Explosive shot>cobra shot>explosive again>arcane shot>explosive shot

How others will tell you:

Explosive shot, heartbeat, explosive shot, (i want to say it's arcane next- i forget), explosive shot

(I do it the first way btw..just easier for me).
By the way, it's not neccessarily a rotation per say. It's a priority system.

I recommend testing it out on the dummy to make sure you have it down before attempting to raid with it.

Another thing (since I'm looking at your spec), there's really no Careful Aim phase for SV- that's why there's no actual rotation. The big thing with SV is you want to pretty much be under 75 focus the whole time (I'm not sure how much that's changed with the new tier). Those points you have in Careful Aim are better placed elsewhere.


From Outdps' summary of the new changes from EJ:

There are some situations (as commenters below point out) where having no delay between the first and second ESs results in clipping. One such situation is when you are moving toward the target. This causes the ESs to arrive too close together and clip. Because of this it helps to make sure that you are not firing the second ES in a LnL sequence before there is one second left on the first ES. Zeherah cautiously recommends using an addon to watch fractional seconds. I personally recommend NeedtoKnow for this but other addons may work too. Regardless, to be on the safe side, I recommend putting a slight delay (but, again, not a shot) between the first two ESs in a Lock and Load sequence. This delay should be very small, substantially shorter than a global, and I recommend testing it out yourself on training dummies to get a feel for what works for you.

People have said that any latency at all pretty much gives you a thumbs up for not clipping, but waiting a fraction of a second isn't a bad habit to get into to never clip one.

Secondly, this is a good place to ask for confirmation: is ExTrap better on single target again these days due to the higher LnL chance? Obviously, there are a couple of fights in DS where things don't move so it would be good to use it where applicable (even though the thought of using a trap regularly in a rotation makes me sad because it feels kind of awkward).
I can only speak from experience in twilight heroics, but I never use Explosive trap, I only ever use black arrow
BA is 5 ticks.
ExTrap is 10.

ExTrap will proc LnL more frequently, so if it's a stationary boss you really ought to be using it for max DPS.

It was possible to clip the last tick of ExS when the GCD was 1.5 seconds, much less the 1 second GCD we have now. If you just mash ExS during a proc - regardless of distance or motion - I can't imagine a situation in which you wouldn't clip the dot. Maybe I'm wrong here since people are talking about it so much, but it seems really unlikely to me that you can mash ExS and not clip.

Waiting a half second isn't really very difficult?

Personally I have quartz monitor my debuffs on target, and if I'm waiting I push the button again when it's about 1/3 of the way through the dot's duration. With the insane focus income from T13 2pc though, there's pretty frequently enough focus to put a KC in between 1st and 2nd ExS.
It's less of a rotation and more of a priority:

SrS is highest priority because it boosts our damage by 3%.

KS is next when you're in execution phase.

ExS

Explosive Trap for low movement fights and AoE, BA for movement heavy fights and if you aren't sure for placement of ExT.

ArS: focus dump.

CoS

AoE:

Shoot out an ExT first and while it's in the air/arming itself, shoot off a Multishot in order to get the SrS damage bonus. Multishot only every 6 seconds so you can get the most out of your AoE.

Also, use LnL procs on multiple targets in order to get the most focus for your pet and more damage.

LnL procs:

ExS, (beat), ExS, ArS, ExS
Deleted by Alkurimm
Deleted by Alkurimm

It was possible to clip the last tick of ExS when the GCD was 1.5 seconds, much less the 1 second GCD we have now. If you just mash ExS during a proc - regardless of distance or motion - I can't imagine a situation in which you wouldn't clip the dot. Maybe I'm wrong here since people are talking about it so much, but it seems really unlikely to me that you can mash ExS and not clip.


In 4.0 the dot refresh mechanics were changed. Now when you refresh a dot, the partial last tick is tacked onto the new dot. Because explosive shot ticks immediately, then 1 sec later, then 2 sec later, and the GCD is 1 sec, if you fire right when the GCD expires, the shot should be hitting right about the time that the 2nd tick is hitting. In theory this should mean you don't need to wait, but in some testing I found that I was still able to clip (if fired immediately) because the timing seems a little screwy, which is why it may be better to give it that extra fractional pause or watch the debuff timing. But basically as long as your next explosive shot hits when there is only a fractional tick left on the mob you won't clip. The last explosive shot needs a spacer though because you're extending the duration of the 2nd explosive shot since that partial tick is being added on.

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